Vince Gilligan Is Breaking Good

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Vince Gilligan has learned not to question the origins of his stories—much like the strange signal that begins his new Apple TV+ series, Pluribus, their source remains unknown. However, the creator of the acclaimed drama Breaking Bad can pinpoint roughly when he first began developing this new sci-fi project, his most ambitious undertaking since finishing the story of Walter White.

Gilligan remembers it being around 2016 in Burbank, when he gathered the writers for the third season of Better Call Saul, the show he co-created with Peter Gould. They often took long lunch breaks, and he’d wander around the neighborhood, lost in thought. He started to think about wish fulfillment – what if everyone just got along? Specifically, he wondered what it would be like if everyone was suddenly incredibly kind to him. But then he realized he needed to broaden the question: what would make one person so interesting that everyone would treat them that way?

The central mystery drives the plot of Pluribus, details of which Apple is keeping secret until the first two episodes are released on November 7th. As for the intriguing character at the heart of it all, it turns out they aren’t a man at all. Creator Vince Gilligan chose Rhea Seehorn, known for her Emmy-nominated role as Kim Wexler in Saul, to play his first female lead, Carol Sturka. While described in promotional materials as “the most miserable person on Earth,” Carol is also presented as a genuine hero.

As someone who’s followed Vince Gilligan’s work from the start, this feels like a huge change. He basically defined the antihero on TV with shows like Breaking Bad – he famously described it as a story of a guy going from a total pushover to a full-on villain. But it’s not out of nowhere. Looking back, there’s always been a strong moral center to his storytelling, and everyone in the industry knows he’s a genuinely kind guy. He’s still incredibly proud of Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul, but he’s come to believe we’ve had too many antiheroes lately, and it’s not good for us. His new series, Pluribus, feels like his response to that – a really bold, artistic, and thought-provoking show that, despite being dark and funny and sometimes really sad, ultimately feels hopeful about humanity. It’s a powerful statement about where we are as a society, and honestly, it’s a vindication of our messy, complicated species.

Looking back on his career, from making home movies as a child in Richmond, Virginia, to becoming a celebrated TV creator at 58, Gilligan attributes his success mostly to good fortune. “I feel like I’m the Kramer of TV writing,” he explained during an October meeting in New York City, meaning he stumbled into success repeatedly. While this might seem like false modesty, it actually reflects the genuine humility of someone who consistently credits the people he works with.

Just a month before his new show, Pluribus, is released, Gilligan visited New York for interviews and a preview at Comic Con. Like Breaking Bad, the show is set in Albuquerque, where Gilligan now lives in New Mexico. He was casually dressed in a bright blue shirt that matched the hotel room’s colors – a coincidence reminiscent of the detailed design of his previous series. He spoke mostly through stories, with a gentle Southern accent, and noticeably, he’d shaved off the goatee he was known for during his time at AMC.

Vince Gilligan has experienced many shifts in the entertainment industry. While studying film at NYU, he won a Virginia Governor’s Screenwriting Award in 1989 for the script that would eventually become the movie Home Fries. He spent the following years writing screenplays, but by 1994, work had become scarce, leaving him financially unstable and without health insurance. A meeting with The X-Files creator Chris Carter wasn’t initially about seeking work; Gilligan simply wanted to express his admiration. However, Carter asked for pitches, and after Gilligan described an episode idea about a character’s shadow coming to life, Carter immediately hired him to write it.

As someone who’s been watching TV for decades, it’s wild to see how much it’s changed! I remember the mid-90s when the big networks ruled, shows like Seinfeld, ER, and even The X-Files on Fox pulling in huge numbers – 20 million viewers was normal! Then came what people call the Third Golden Age, with shows like Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul really pushing boundaries. It all started with The Sopranos and then Netflix needing content really fueled it. Now, I’m seeing Gilligan work on Pluribus for Apple, which is one of the few places still willing to spend big money on streaming series, especially sci-fi like Foundation and Severance. It’s a different landscape now, with Hollywood tightening its belt, but it’s cool to see someone with his track record still getting the chance to create ambitious shows.

Gilligan initially worried he wouldn’t succeed as a television writer. He admits, “I’m really lazy,” and thought his habit of taking frequent video game breaks would mean he wouldn’t last the 13-week trial period on The X-Files. He even joked to himself that he didn’t need to do chores like cleaning out his fridge, figuring things could wait 13 weeks. However, he was surprised to find he actually enjoyed the demanding work. He realized two things made TV special: getting your writing actually made – unlike movies, which can take years to produce, if ever – and collaborating with intelligent, talented people he could happily spend long hours with.

After The X-Files ended in 2002, Vince Gilligan experienced another period of uncertainty. However, he was fortunate to be developing Breaking Bad at a time when cable channels were increasingly producing their own unique shows, offering a welcome change from the long seasons typical of network television. When Breaking Bad premiered in 2008, following a high school teacher diagnosed with cancer who turns to making methamphetamine to secure his family’s future, it didn’t initially create as much excitement as AMC’s hit show, Mad Men. A 2011 article in The New York Times Magazine somewhat prematurely labeled Gilligan “TV’s first true red-state auteur.” Just as the show’s audience seemed to be leveling off, Netflix began streaming it during its fourth season, bringing in millions of new viewers to AMC to watch new episodes.

As a huge fan of television, I still remember being blown away by the finale of Breaking Bad – over 10 million people watched Walter White’s story come to an end, and it felt truly epic. What’s even more impressive is what came after. We got Better Call Saul, a fantastic show diving into the backstory of Saul Goodman, and then El Camino, a movie that followed Jesse Pinkman’s journey. Vince Gilligan, the creator, acknowledges he had some luck with timing, but honestly, no other show really matched Breaking Bad‘s success. Mad Men had a dedicated following, but never reached those numbers, and while Game of Thrones was massive, its quality wasn’t as consistently high. Breaking Bad really was the king of basic cable in the 2010s, and it’s hard to imagine anything quite like it again.

The new show, Pluribus, which comes three years after the end of Saul, starts by playfully poking fun at common tropes found in popular apocalyptic dramas like The Walking Dead, The Last of Us, and 3 Body Problem. The first episode teases various ways the world could end before revealing a truly unexpected catastrophe. Essentially, within the first thirty minutes, everything changes beyond recognition. And honestly, even if I weren’t asked to keep things secret, I wouldn’t reveal more – the show is most effective when you experience the unfolding events with as much surprise as the main character, Carol.

From the beginning, it was clear that Pluribus was a much bigger project than anything creator Vince Gilligan had done before. Filming took place all over the world, including the Canary Islands, northern Spain, a Norwegian ice hotel, and the hills of Tangier, Morocco. The production team even built an entire neighborhood in the desert outside Albuquerque, choosing a location with a view of the Sandia Mountains. As Gilligan explains, they knew they couldn’t film in a real neighborhood because the strange events happening at Carol’s house would inevitably cause problems with the residents after just a few episodes.

The quiet, isolated street where Carol lives seems to mirror the deep loneliness she feels, even before a major life event. Though she’s a successful fantasy romance author, Carol constantly puts herself down, calling her books silly and expressing disdain for her fans – a behavior her manager and partner, Helen (Miriam Shor), believes stems from self-hatred. Because Carol is so flawed, the showrunner, Gilligan, cast an actress – Seehorn – that the audience already loved, hoping to balance those flaws with positive qualities like her character’s strength and independence. Gilligan also enjoyed working with Seehorn again, describing her as a genuinely kind and pleasant person.

Creating his first female lead character was something he approached with care. He noted the contrasting reactions to two of his previous female characters: Kim, a lawyer viewers loved and feared for, and Skyler, who often received harsh criticism. He admits to being cautious when writing female characters, especially a lesbian character, as it fell outside his own experiences. However, the series benefited from having many women writers and directors. He believes what made both Kim and Carol compelling characters was that they were fully realized people, not defined by their gender or sexuality. Actress Rhea Seehorn explains that the creator didn’t set out to write a story about female empowerment, but rather a complex, flawed, and reluctant hero. The creator himself confirms he wasn’t focused on masculine or feminine traits, but simply on a character struggling with unhappiness and adjusting to a world that seemed to revolve around her. Looking back, he realized her anxious and pessimistic tendencies actually reflected his own personal struggles as a writer.

Despite being different from his previous crime dramas, Pluribus still feels distinctly like a Vince Gilligan show. It maintains his signature style: a blend of sadness and dark humor, impressive visuals, and memorable characters. He still expertly builds suspense with those captivating opening scenes that often jump to unexpected places or introduce new people. After a screening, I even overheard someone excitedly pointing out hidden references to Breaking Bad that I’d missed! Returning to science fiction feels natural for Gilligan, and exploring new genres allows him to build on his already impressive work. He acknowledges the impact of Breaking Bad – “It’ll probably be on my tombstone!” – but he’s eager to prove he can create other compelling stories before he’s finished.

I remember reading back in 2016, between seasons two and three of Better Call Saul, that Vince Gilligan was trying to develop a drama about the Jonestown tragedy. He’s since talked about how that project just didn’t work out, and he considers it a real misstep. He got stuck trying to figure out how to tell that story respectfully, without accidentally giving a platform to the awful man who led everything. He realized it was a story he wasn’t equipped to handle, and that he’s just better at creating fictional worlds. He says it relieved the pressure of feeling responsible for portraying real people’s suffering.

Compared to today’s trend of adaptations and franchise-building, Terry Gilliam stands out for what he avoids doing as much as for what he does. He’s unlikely to direct a big-budget series like Andor or The Penguin, or anything else based on established, massive franchises. He acknowledges the popularity of modern franchises like Star Wars, Star Trek, Marvel, and DC, saying, “They’re great,” but points out they were originally created for a different generation. “These stories were made for people who are now in their 60s and 70s, or even older,” he explains. While he believes these franchises still have value, he stresses the importance of creating new, original stories that reflect our current world. “Each generation deserves its own mythology,” he says.

Gilligan could also make a lot of money by becoming a “megaproducer” – like Ryan Murphy or Shonda Rhimes – overseeing multiple shows while letting others handle the day-to-day running of each one. He admits he should probably explore this option, as it’s financially rewarding. However, the idea of briefly joining writers’ rooms to offer feedback and then moving on doesn’t appeal to him. He jokes it would be a nightmare.

Vince Gilligan is often called an auteur, a label he doesn’t like, but he truly enjoys working with a team. He admires showrunners who write every episode themselves – like Mike White with The White Lotus – but believes his shows are better because of collaboration. Actress Rhea Seehorn describes him as a conductor, bringing his vision to life while allowing everyone on set to contribute their talents. It’s no surprise that many people who’ve worked with Gilligan on past projects were also part of the crew on Pluribus.

In his 2013 book Difficult Men, Brett Martin described Vince Gilligan, the creator of shows like The Sopranos and Mad Men, as a rare leader: someone who could be both a demanding perfectionist and a supportive collaborator. This reputation has stuck – many consider him one of the kindest people in Hollywood, and negative comments about him are hard to find. This positive environment encourages creativity. Rhea Seehorn, who joined the cast of Saul, found herself working with incredibly talented people who were genuinely excited to collaborate and prioritize the story above all else.

While accepting a lifetime achievement award from the Writers Guild in February, Vince Gilligan spoke about the need for a shift in pop culture. He pointed out that in a time when real-life villains seem to be everywhere – people who disregard rules and only look out for themselves – it’s time for stories to focus on heroes again. He playfully suggested his audience in Hollywood could likely guess who he meant when referring to these ‘bad guys’.

Gilligan has voiced these kinds of opinions since at least 2018. What caused this creator, who previously built a reputation for nostalgic storytelling similar to the movie Scarface during the Obama years, to shift towards a more wholesome, Mr. Chipslike approach? While Gilligan avoids naming names, Donald Trump became president in 2017, so it’s reasonable to assume that event played a role. Gilligan explains he’s intentionally avoided politics throughout his career, believing that taking sides would alienate half of his potential viewers. He says both Breaking Bad and Saul Gone* focused on the idea that actions have consequences – a simple message, but one he points out was largely absent from television for years. Before the advent of DVRs and streaming, characters on episodic shows could commit terrible acts one week and then act as if nothing happened the next.

Gilligan now feels he needs to rethink the characters he creates because he believes the current issues aren’t simply about political left versus right. He sees the core conflict as being about preserving democracy, the rule of law, and free speech—things he fears are at risk. While he thinks the U.S. is dangerously close to a civil war, he doesn’t believe anyone truly wants one.

He believes we need to find ways to actually talk to one another. Gilligan hopes people on different sides of the political spectrum can connect in person, rather than just arguing online. He admits it’s a challenge, but he thinks his show, Pluribus – while not directly about current politics – might subtly encourage those kinds of conversations, as it focuses on people trying to do what’s right.

Even though the show is based on a far-out idea, it powerfully reflects the feelings of isolation many people experienced during the COVID pandemic and the fear that artificial intelligence could eventually replace human connection. (The creator, Gilligan, didn’t think about advanced AI when he first came up with the story, but hopes it might make people question its development.) Plus, the flawed but determined main character, Carol Sturka, offers viewers someone to root for who doesn’t let personal struggles prevent her from trying to make a difference.

Gilligan believes his show, Pluribus, avoids the overly sweet sentimentality seen in many stories. In fact, it’s known for being dry, ironic, and unflinchingly honest about the darkness within people. However, the journey of the character Carol becomes surprisingly uplifting as the season progresses. This shift isn’t just due to the actress’s performance or Gilligan’s own reservations about flawed protagonists; it also stems from his concern about the popularity of dystopian science fiction. He worried that constantly creating stories about the end of the world might actually encourage acceptance of such a fate, rather than inspiring efforts to prevent it. Ultimately, the core message of Pluribus is a hopeful one: humanity is worth saving.

Vince Gilligan isn’t resistant to suggestions; Seehorn says he always welcomes her input. Despite his detailed storytelling, he also appreciates flexibility and improvisation. As a showrunner, he knows you have to be willing to quickly abandon ideas if needed. There are many examples in Breaking Bad of significant plot changes made during production, alternate endings considered, and characters like Jesse being kept on the show longer than planned due to strong actor performances. While he has a better idea of how Pluribus will end compared to his previous shows at this stage, he’s not promising anything is set in stone.

Gilligan says he likes to keep his options open and be flexible. He compares it to driving across the country: you know your ultimate destination, like going from Virginia to California, but the most interesting part is exploring the unexpected detours and backroads along the way. There’s an element of chance – you might face setbacks, or have wonderful surprises – but with a clear goal and a capable person at the wheel, the journey itself is what makes it worthwhile.

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2025-10-27 18:08