Chloé Zhao went through a ‘very painful fire’ before turning heartbreak into ‘Hamnet’

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Telluride, Colorado – Typically at Telluride, a director introduces their movie by speaking briefly on stage before leaving as the lights dim. However, during the premiere of her latest film “Hamnet”, Chloé Zhao confessed she struggled to find suitable words. Given that the film revolves around William Shakespeare, the greatest wordsmith in history, this seemed somewhat appropriate.

Instead, Zhao, who was 43 years old, guided the full audience at Palm Theater through a calming “ceremony” that she and her crew had been rehearsing since before the script was even drafted, all the way up to the final day of filming. She invited everyone to shut their eyes, rest a hand on their chests, and sense the heaviness of their bodies in the seats while feeling the Rocky Mountains surrounding them for protection. In sync, the spectators released three deep, resonant breaths, followed by tapping their chests synchronously, whispering softly: “This is my heart. This is my heart. This is my heart.

By the finish of the movie, those very hearts were filled with sorrow. Based on Maggie O’Farrell’s 2020 novel, “Hamnet” delves into the life of William Shakespeare (portrayed by Paul Mescal) and his tragic marriage to Agnes (Jessie Buckley), as well as the heartbreaking loss of their 11-year-old son, Hamnet. The film portrays Shakespeare not as a legendary figure but as a grieving husband and father. A blend of reality and surrealism, it sparked some of the most fervent and collective acclaim among this year’s premieres.

8 years ago, Zhao arrived in Telluride with “The Rider,” which had just premiered at Cannes and was relatively unknown. In 2020, she came back to Telluride with “Nomadland,” which got a drive-in screening at Pasadena’s Rose Bowl thanks to the pandemic and eventually won best picture, making Oscar history as Zhao became the second woman – and the first and only woman of color – to win the directing award. After that, she took on Marvel’s “Eternals,” a big project that placed her in the franchise world and received a tough critical response. Now, with “Hamnet,” she’s returning to a smaller stage, swapping cosmic grandeur for personal human drama.

On a quiet Sunday morning in Telluride, following the response to her latest movie, Zhao found herself reflecting and ready for conversation about the reasons behind tackling O’Farrell’s story, her methods in navigating Shakespeare’s realm, and the intricate process of transforming sorrow into artistic expression.

In our previous conversation for “The Rider” in 2018, you shared that you consider yourself quite pessimistic and that good reviews only make you anticipate negative ones to follow. How are you feeling now, given the remarkable response “Hamnet” has received? Did you expect such a reaction when working on this project?

Was the event you’re asking about related to the public reaction to “Eternals”? To be clear, I can’t verbally express it directly due to its impact, but let me put it this way: there was a significant amount of fear among us.

The overwhelming sense of dread primarily stemmed from the certainty with which we perceived our encounter. This event significantly transformed each of our lives, leaving an indelible mark on mine that continues to resonate. One might question: Were we delusional? Or is this something unique only we can understand?

Reflecting on your arduous, perilous voyage to secure these items for safekeeping, the experience feels poignant as you gaze backward at the heartache and concessions endured throughout. The emotional weight has yet to fully settle, given the whirlwind of events that transpired.

How did your encounter with Shakespeare unfold during your childhood in China, subsequent move to England and later years in Los Angeles as a teenager? What initial feelings or impressions did he leave you with?

Shakespeare is greatly admired in China. In Chinese theater, adaptations of his plays are performed. When I was studying in the U.K., I hadn’t yet mastered English and studying Shakespeare was quite challenging for me. I must admit that my comprehension of Shakespeare isn’t as profound as Paul or Jesse’s. The linguistic aspects always seemed like a barrier, but the universal themes in his stories resonated strongly with me, particularly “Macbeth.” During high school in Los Angeles, I acted out Lady Macbeth’s soliloquy on stage for a project because everyone had to present a monologue. At that time, my English skills were still developing.

In other words, you mentioned that at first, you weren’t certain about taking on the role of director for this movie due to three reasons: Firstly, since you aren’t a mother and have never felt maternal, you questioned whether you could convincingly portray the central character who is a mother. Secondly, there was the challenge of authenticity in a period film, as you weren’t sure how you would maintain an authentic feel while also being limited by historical accuracy, not being able to improvise or make things up on set. Lastly, tackling Shakespeare presented doubts about whether one needed to have extensive scholarly knowledge in order to effectively bring the story to life.

How did you end up here? While driving near Four Corners, New Mexico, I received a call from Amblin. Initially, I declined, but Steven Spielberg persisted in encouraging me to consider it. My agent then informed me that Paul Mescal was interested in meeting me. At the time, I wasn’t familiar with his work. The secret screening of “Aftersun” at Telluride 2022 piqued my interest, and after a walk by the creek with him, I found myself wondering if he could portray young Shakespeare convincingly. To my surprise, he had already read the book. Upon reading it myself, I felt that if Maggie O’Farrell could write this story with me, she could help me understand and portray that world more authentically. As soon as I finished the book, I requested a meeting with Jessie Buckley, and I couldn’t envision anyone else embodying Agnes better than her.

After wrapping up films like “Songs My Brothers Taught Me” and “Nomadland,” both smaller productions, you’ve returned to create something more intimate once again. Given that the budget for this new project is significantly larger than “Nomadland” but still much less compared to “Eternals,” did it feel like a fresh start?

Following “Nomadland” and “Eternals,” my perspective significantly altered. In my thirties, I found myself longing to follow the horizon indefinitely. The journey never seemed to be enough; I wanted more. I felt as if I were constantly running, never stopping. However, after watching “Eternals,” I realized that capturing another sunset on film wouldn’t bring me the same satisfaction it had in “The Rider” and “Nomadland.” This period was filled with personal struggles, and as I approached midlife, I came to understand that I’d been living like a cowboy or a nomad.

As a movie connoisseur, after spending the past four years treading on life’s path rather than racing or reaching for new horizons, I found myself yearning for something deeper and more profound. By the time “Hamnet” crossed my path, I was prepared – ready to dive headfirst into a tale that promised to touch the very essence of what it means to be human. This time around, I discovered a different kind of humanity – one that has seen its share of seasons, standing taller and stronger through the years, reaching towards the sky or burrowing deep underground, rather than racing on the ever-expanding plains of life.

How did you manage to portray both the reality and the dreamlike aspects of Shakespeare and his son in your movie?
To strike a balance between what’s historically accurate and the surreal, I drew inspiration from ancient philosophers who contemplated the essence of being. The question “to be or not to be” transcends mere suicide; it explores existence itself. My approach was to let each film scene express its own truth in the moment.

I assembled a team that included historians and actors who could bring knowledge of the past, but also maintain an awareness of the present. I wouldn’t tolerate anyone who adhered too closely to facts or took a literal interpretation. Instead, I sought collaborators who could conduct thorough research while being open to the ever-changing nature of our creative process.

In the movie, Shakespeare’s character is introduced late and portrayed as a husband and father rather than an iconic figure. I aimed to humanize him in this adaptation, focusing on the mutual recognition between the characters, who are archetypal figures. My interest lies in exploring the dynamic tension between being and doing, birth and death, which I have studied through Jungian psychology and Hindu Tantra. By portraying characters embodying these forces, the story can resonate with a broader audience at both a personal and collective level. The creative process allows these conflicting energies to coexist harmoniously, transcending the narrative of marriage or childhood loss.

Portraying the loss of a child on screen can be challenging and emotional for both filmmakers and audiences alike. Over the years, various approaches have been taken to depict this kind of grief authentically, from “Ordinary People” to “Manchester by the Sea.” When it comes to our film, I didn’t focus on what might be too much or too little for viewers. Instead, I believe in giving a raw portrayal of sorrow, like Agnes’ wailing, which could resonate with anyone who has experienced loss. The silence around this topic for millennia has caused significant harm, and it’s time to break that silence in our films.

How would you interpret that?

Consider the behavior of ancient warriors after battle – they celebrated, shouted, helped one another heal. In Tantra, sexuality was a means of healing. Now it’s more about consulting therapists, taking medication, and reconnecting with family. The body is less free to express itself. Confining a woman during childbirth and silencing her is an example of this control. We understand why such control occurs, but I believe people are drawn to films where actors fully embody their roles because they yearn for that connection.

In your question, you’re asking about the theme of grief running consistently throughout my films. To put it simply, each of my movies features characters who have experienced significant loss – this could be their dreams, home, purpose, or faith. These characters grieve for their former selves to ultimately discover their true identities. This exploration of grief is not only personal but also encompasses larger societal themes. I didn’t grow up understanding the complexities of grief. Instead, I created films that would provide catharsis for my characters and in turn, help me understand it better as well.

My friend, Ryan Coogler (the director of “Sinners”), who knows me intimately, met with me after watching “Hamnet.” He remarked, “Previously, your performances were stunning, but this time I truly saw you on screen. You’ve managed to reveal yourself for the first time.” Achieving that level of authenticity required four films, navigating such profound grief and fear.

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The conversation about Oscars has begun once again. Just like you’ve encountered this situation before, right? Well, here’s my approach: much like Paul, Jessie, and I did while making the film, we stayed focused by being fully present in the moment. It can be challenging, but I try to carry that mindset into each day – simply thinking, “Today is all that matters.” It’s gratifying to receive recognition, but with my career experience, it’s impossible to foresee how things will unfold. Honestly, I didn’t anticipate “Nomadland” having such a journey ahead of it. So, I let go and let the flow take me wherever it may.

Are you curious about my plans next? After completing work on the new “Buffy the Vampire Slayer” series, which follows the original story 25 years later, I’m eager to delve into a theater production as well. Given my company’s involvement in the show and the unique passion that fandom holds for me, I can’t wait to see how it unfolds. Subsequently, I’m considering returning to the stage after finishing another play, “Our Town,” to which I had to dedicate my time to work on “Hamnet.” However, I aim to learn from this film experience and then revisit the theater.

The current situation in the film industry feels uncertain with fewer job opportunities, studio consolidation, and concerns about AI. As a filmmaker, I perceive that the business and the art form are at a critical juncture where we’re facing numerous challenges, similar to Hamlet standing at the edge of the river, contemplating his future in Shakespeare’s play. It’s a time of change, where the old and new forces collide, yet we can’t go back and aren’t sure how to proceed. However, as the universe expands when two opposing forces reach an equilibrium, I believe this is our moment too. We can either resist or embrace it, cherish our relationships, and focus on what we can accomplish today to adapt and grow in this evolving landscape.

Hopefully I’m not so pessimistic now. Or at least a little bit less.

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2025-09-01 01:01