Jacinda Ardern on Empathy, World Leaders Today, and Her Intimate New Documentary

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Jacinda Ardern, relatively unknown even in her own country, became New Zealand’s leader at the age of 37. She stepped down in early 2023, citing exhaustion, after just over five years in office. It’s understandable she felt worn out. She first gained international recognition for her compassionate and effective handling of the 2019 mass shooting in Christchurch. Following that, she faced the challenge of a volcanic eruption that claimed 22 lives, and then the COVID-19 pandemic, responding quickly by closing New Zealand’s borders. New Zealand had fewer than 5,000 COVID-19 deaths (less than 0.1% of the population), but this was accompanied by significant public discontent and prolonged protests.

Also, in June 2018, about eight months after assuming office, she had a baby. 

Jacinda Ardern’s husband, Clark Gayford, was already a familiar face on national television and radio before she became well-known. As Ardern’s profile grew, he began filming both their personal and public life. These captured moments form the core of Prime Minister, a documentary offering an intimate portrait of what it meant to lead a country as a young woman during a period of global uncertainty. The film received an Audience Award at the Sundance Film Festival after its debut in January, had a limited release in theaters earlier this year, and will be available to stream on HBO starting September 30.

Jacinda Ardern, known for her compassionate and collaborative leadership approach, recently spoke with TIME magazine. She discussed whether leaders who prioritize empathy are still relevant today, shared what guidance she would offer to current world leaders, and revealed a surprising personal inspiration.

This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity

I was really moved by the new HBO documentary, Prime Minister. It focuses on your leadership – the way you always lead with compassion and humanity. Watching it made me wonder, does it ever feel like that approach isn’t quite paying off right now? It’s a tough question, but I admire how you consistently prioritize those values.

The common approach is definitely the most popular, and that’s clear. However, it’s not the *only* way to lead. We see leaders globally who prioritize empathy and kindness. For example, Mark Carney [of Canada] and Anthony Albanese [of Australia], both recently elected Prime Ministers, specifically used their important election-night speeches – the ones where they outline their plans and vision – to emphasize kindness.

You collaborated with your husband, Clark Gayford, on this film, and he captured many personal moments, like when you were considering stepping down and even deciding what to wear. Was the intention to create a documentary always part of the plan?

Clark began filming with his camera, as he’s someone who broadcasts events. He was likely thinking, “I’m capturing scenes that others aren’t seeing, which could become significant or simply be cherished family memories.” There wasn’t a specific plan, really; he just wanted to document what was happening. He needed a lot of patience, because I often scolded him, dismissed him, and even got upset with him. I was trying to work, and he’d frequently interrupt with questions or just have the camera present, which I found annoying at the time. I truly admire his persistence, though.

In the movie, there’s a scene where it’s obvious you’re feeling stressed by the demands of your work. He then asks why you don’t share some of the responsibility with others. Your answer implies that his suggestion wasn’t helpful. Was there a specific guideline about which conversations ended up being included in the final version of the film?

He worked as both the cinematographer and a producer on the film. However, there’s a good reason he wasn’t involved in the editing or directing. I didn’t see the complete film until after it was submitted to the Sundance Film Festival. You have to have faith that if the film relies solely on real footage of you, it will accurately convey the story. 

I’ve been wondering if men tend to worry less about criticism than women do. Could that be a reason why we see so many men in leadership positions? It just makes me think – maybe they’re more willing to put themselves out there, even if it means facing judgment from others.

I believe it’s less about gender and more about someone’s personality – the kind of leader they aim to be and how well they listen to what voters are saying. And it’s not just…

I feel strongly that women naturally excel at empathetic leadership. It’s not enough to simply tell our daughters to be kind, generous, and curious. The qualities that make a good person should also define what makes a good leader.

For a short time, you were the focus of the world. Many leaders find their opportunities diminish when that spotlight fades, but you still have a lot of potential ahead of you. A. Do you ever find yourself missing the attention you received, or any aspect of that time? And B. How are you deciding what your next steps will be?

I’m actually quite happy with having a bit of privacy. But as time went on, and I thought about how I could still be helpful, I realized I need to use whatever platform I have – even if it’s a small one – to discuss different approaches to leadership than what we’re seeing today. I also want to continue working on important issues like climate change, violent extremism, and the challenges faced by women in public service. I’ve learned that having a public profile and being able to make a difference often go hand in hand. You can learn more about these issues here.

Having dealt with the aftermath of a terrible shooting yourself, do reports of numerous shootings in the United States bring back memories of the Christchurch attack? What goes through your mind when you hear about these events?

Almost everything I read about politics reminds me of my time in office. It hasn’t been long-just two years since I left-and issues like gun violence, trade talks, or international conflicts such as in Ukraine or Gaza still cross my mind. I stand by my decision to leave, but I often find myself wondering how I would approach these challenges if I were still involved.

Is there something you would say to current world leaders?

Everyone is dealing with their own personal challenges, but underneath it all, there’s a widespread feeling of worry and insecurity. Much of this is likely due to financial instability and the tough economic situation many Western democracies are facing after a very difficult pandemic. When people are afraid and uncertain, politicians can either exploit those feelings, amplify them, and find someone to blame – someone other than the system itself, which would mean they aren’t accountable for fixing things. Or, they can choose the more difficult, but ultimately better, path: openly addressing the problems people are experiencing, diligently searching for solutions, and being truthful about how long it will take to see improvements. It’s pretty clear which approach most leaders are taking right now. It’s a critical moment and requires honest leadership. Finding real solutions is key to restoring public trust.

You’ve stated your goal during the pandemic was to save lives and maintain social connection, and you believe you were successful in saving lives. Considering the current divisions in many countries, do you think this is a reaction to the period when everyone had to cooperate and support each other?

I’m very interested in understanding the current psychological landscape. Edelman researches public opinions about leaders in both government and private companies. Their findings are quite revealing: while public trust is currently low, it’s largely driven by a feeling of being wronged. People are struggling, and they feel leaders – both in politics and business – haven’t addressed their problems. This feeling of injustice then influences what people believe is an appropriate response to these issues.

Can you share an update on how the groups working to combat online violence are doing, particularly the one you co-founded after the Christchurch attack?

The Christchurch Call to Action on Violent Extremism and Terrorism Online brings together tech companies, governments, and organizations like NGOs, as well as anyone interested in protecting freedom of expression, human rights, and civil liberties online. There are currently over 130 organizations involved. It remains just as crucial today as it always has been. Our goal wasn’t simply to eliminate violent content; we aim to tackle the process of radicalization, so we’re working hard to gain a deeper understanding of user behavior. We are aware of what’s happening, but we require more collective action to effectively address it. Progress is proving to be very hard going.

I saw videos all over social media of Charlie Kirk’s shooting, footage the mainstream media wouldn’t touch. It was everywhere, honestly, and it’s frustrating they weren’t showing it on regular news channels. Videos of the event were spreading quickly.

It’s reasonable to say that publishing standards exist to protect people, to recognize the damage caused by seeing violent acts, and to discourage further violence. I think the rules that apply to traditional news outlets should also apply to social media platforms. They aren’t simply delivering information; they are actively publishing content. Can we consistently enforce this principle when we’re working to counter extremism? Let’s consider this approach. I don’t see them as just messengers, but as entities responsible for what they share.

Melinda French Gates’ Pivotal Ventures provided you with $20 million to donate to the charities or causes you support. Have you identified any organizations to fund yet?

We’re supporting a project focused on eliminating deaths of mothers during humanitarian emergencies. The most frequent cause of maternal death during childbirth is excessive bleeding after delivery. Fortunately, this is completely avoidable. In regions experiencing conflict or crisis, simple and effective solutions aren’t getting to the women who desperately need them.

What does the future hold for you? Do you have a five-year plan?

I haven’t and won’t be stopping. Right now, I’m studying at the University of Oxford. Some of my research there focuses on empathetic leadership. However, I’m also serving as the special envoy for Oceania at COP30 this year. I continue to work with Pivotal, and I’m still involved with the Christchurch Call to Action on Violent Extremism Online. Plus, I still hold the Field fellowship.

Ernest Shackleton, the famous explorer, is often admired as a hero. However, his personal life was quite difficult – he died owing a lot of money, frequently struggled to pay his sailors, and battled with alcohol abuse…

He also attempted, badly, to enter into politics. Not a perfect human.

Why him? 

Someone with such a strong drive to repeatedly confront likely death is bound to be exceptional. What I most respect about him is his ability to lead during incredibly challenging situations. While he didn’t achieve everything he aimed for, he consistently prioritized uniting people, fostering a shared goal, and keeping their spirits up, even when things were bleak. He believed that genuine optimism is a form of moral strength, and that choosing to be optimistic during hard times takes real courage.

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2025-09-29 22:07